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Old 06-02-2001, 07:42 PM   #16   [permalink]
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Oh My God, Mika-chan I know exactly what you mean-my school is like that too. Good thing I'm going to be an art major now, or else I'd NEVER get into an art class.

Alright, I propose we assume that all art teachers are EVIL until proven good, and should be eliminated on sight!

*above comments are for humor purposes only, Yui_Reborn, the fanart forum and Animeboards.net do not condone the killing of art teachers-unless they refer to anime as 'them cartoons'*
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Old 06-02-2001, 08:10 PM   #17   [permalink]
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Angry

Holy cow!! What's this world coming to?! Your teachers are really like THAT?!

I feel luckier everyday I read this thread! At least three of my teachers would stay behind for an hour if need be to help everyone out in class. *sigh* My heart goes out to you guys... Oh well, keep on going I say and tell them to shove it!
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Old 08-02-2001, 07:19 PM   #18   [permalink]
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High school classes are a joke.

College (or at least my college) classes are incredibly awesome. I've been drawing for a very long while, but never really had any of the basics taught to me. After a month of classes, my drawing is at least ten times better than it used to be...
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Old 10-02-2001, 10:34 PM   #19   [permalink]
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hmmmmm.... this seems to be a hot one...

At the risk of being tarred and feathered, I would have to side with the teachers who promote a traditional approach to ground one in the basics.

Why is this important? Well, a common problem with having a popular style, is the temptation to copy the style and not the intent. By doing this, the aspiring artist can only duplicate what has been shown and would have difficulty in new situations or settings.

It's like the fable about the begger and the fisherman...

which would be better, to put one fish in the beggars bowl or to teach the unfortunate individual how to catch fish and never go hungry again?

... now applying this to art education, a general rule that has not let me down yet, is to go from the rules of "realism" and bend them for any type of abstraction.

... crawl, walk then run...fly.

(bending anatomical rules for anime would probably fall under the catagory as "run".

... and as for teachers who are "less than optimal", that is an unfortunate fact of life. Think of it as preparation for an imperfect world.

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Old 22-01-2004, 05:03 PM   #20   [permalink]
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well... Sadly I would have to sorta Agree with the teachers...

Develop your style, but you definitely should not refuse to draw anything but anime. I'm sorry, but a lot of the people at my school who complain about art teachers telling them not to draw anime suck at drawing. If you suck at drawing and watch anime you are probably more likely to try a career in art... even though you suck. I don't know why that is. People who have no style at all think that they draw good because they draw anime.

There are so many differant medias and techniques to be used. There are so many styles to test etc. I guess my art work would be titled "anime" but I think I have many more influences than anime... and I think that if I didn't have those Influences as an artist that I wouldn't be to the point I am now. (which isn't saying I'm a good artist.. but I know I'm not in the "horrible" catagory. yay?)

So... the moral of this post is... don't put all your eggs in one basket... or don't paint all your eggs one color? or... umm... VIVA LA VI LA REVOLUTION!
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Old 22-01-2004, 09:38 PM   #21   [permalink]
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Art classes to me, just mean more practice. I don't get that much time to practice, so when i do, i try to get as much out of it as possible. I really don't think they have helped me out any more than just extra time to practice, even if i do have to do the projects that they make me do. College classes are nicer though, because they tend to allow more freedom in your projects.
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Old 22-01-2004, 11:31 PM   #22   [permalink]
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you guys brought this back from the dead....

But art teachers suck.

My professor (fine arts, in college) got SUPER pissed when I used anime in my final project... you can see it at www.akiahara.deviantart.com.... but he had to give me a good grade.

He hated anime and didn't see it as art.

Yet I don't see Warhol's (#&*(%Y#*()$% thing of soup a (@#&% piece of @()#&*% art either!!!!
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Old 23-01-2004, 02:54 AM   #23   [permalink]
SamIam
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Originally Posted by Yui_Reborn
Have any of the 'regular artists' (pretty much anyone reading this right now), actually benefitted from a high school or college level art class? Did things that you learned in class actually help you improve your own style, or was most of your improvement the result of your own personal effort?

Part of the reason I'm asking this is because of some turmoil in my life.....I'm switching my major and I'm still a little unsure what to major in, but I know I could NEVER major in art or illustration at the school I'm currently at because of their total lack of respect for the type of art we display on this board.......art with characters. And unfortunately, I think most schools out there are like that; they see comics/animation as a bad habit that they want to break you of rather than help you develp it.

Where do they get this mindset that any art form made popular after the Middle Ages can't possibly be valid? How can artists, people who pride themselves on being more sensitive to the world and emotions than others, go around thinking "art is what WE think it is: you are wrong, your art won't last."

My personal favorite though is when they insult my style as being "non-autobiographical". Do these people know what autobiographical MEANS????? Every time I draw, even if I'm drawing an established character (or my own creation), it is autobiographical.....of course there are greater and lesser extents of this, but you don't need to draw a self-portriat in charcoal, with your eyes where your nose should be and title it "Myself; Conflicted" or some nonsense like that to be autobiographical! ARRRRRRGH!!!!!!

Furthermore, it seems like having a passion for your art is a liability rather than a benefit......teachers resent you for it. They failed at becoming successful independent artists (in most cases), so they have to teach, and the sign that you have the ambition to possibly accomplish what they couldn't gauls them to no end. So, they try to throw as many obstacles in your path as possible.

Sorry for this being a bit of a rant, but I'm curious to see if anyone else has had similar experiences with art classes. I know eventually I'll have to bite the bullet and take some anatomy classes if I want my drawing to really improve (technically anyway), but I'll simply be using the class to help me focus on improving in that area-nothing more. Because I feel like the 'art school' establishment has tried very hard to drive me away.
hmmmm... how to answer, well, let me qualify my position as the student ...
What did I learn (if anything?) from Highschool and College art?

Well, first and foremost, I learned patience, scope and the ability to take criticism. Yes, there was also the academic aspects which were helpful in regards to understanding the "context" of art, past and present ...

As for art production itself? ... well, the finer points of anatomy I suppose and of course color and perspective ... but in general, nothing dramatic ... merely a refinement of what had come before.

As I dimly recall, one of the overiding guidelines of the art teacher is to first set the groundwork of art ... what is it? Why is it? and most importantly How can I do it?

This can be a bit tricky, because, there is a fine balance between giving background information to a process and Sleepsville USA ... but keep this in mind ... if there is a holy grail for art teachers, it is to privide a curricullum that incrementally builds upon a firm foundation of basic skill and methodology.

Now you may well ask, What does this have to do with my art?

Well, the good Art teacher strives to discipline the artist just enough to create a solid working knowledge of basic art skills along with the ability to problem solve for difficult or tricky situations.... but not so much that it begins to curtail spontaneity or creativity.

So the beginning work towards traditional skills may seem boring or irrelevant, but the secret is it serves two purposes ...

1. The application of traditional skills (beyond the skill itself) helps the teacher to profile students in regards to tenacity, adaptability, discipline and commitment.

2. The basic methodology for art in regards to its basic elements - color, design, perspective, layout and pscyhology ... can be applied to personal styles for the purpose of understanding your own art as well as enabling potentially much greater consistency and productivity under fire.

Also keep in mind, that the notion of art is so very broad, that even with generic approaches, it is difficult if not impossible to effectively teach the notion of art in its entirety...thus you have specialized schools that focus
on genres or styles of art.

Hang in there!

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Old 23-01-2004, 03:56 PM   #24   [permalink]
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Woooow, I posted that a long time ago...

Well, in general SamIAm I agree with you, however, I'm afraid my original post may have made it sound like I was saying "All I want to draw is anime-style and I have no interest in anything else!"

I do like traditional art techniques and styles, and I do agree that learning various aspects of the craft, even if you're not thrilled with all of them, is great for teaching you patience, and a better overall knowledge of what's out there. However, what I got very irritated with, was not so much being made to work in traditional media and styles, but the lack of tolerance for anything OTHER than that.

For one thing, I do think that a lot of the kids that only draw anime/comic style would benefit from learning about a wider variety of styles and techniques; however, the right way to do that is not to tell them to give up what they love drawing.

Anyway, as an interesting post-script, I am now finishing up a major in English and a minor in Japanese; there will be no mention of art anywhere on my diploma. And I probably spend at least 20 hours a week on art, but what can you do.
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Old 23-01-2004, 05:15 PM   #25   [permalink]
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Originally Posted by Akiahara
you guys brought this back from the dead....

But art teachers suck.

My professor (fine arts, in college) got SUPER pissed when I used anime in my final project... you can see it at www.akiahara.deviantart.com.... but he had to give me a good grade.

He hated anime and didn't see it as art.

Yet I don't see Warhol's (#&*(%Y#*()$% thing of soup a (@#&% piece of @()#&*% art either!!!!

I think Warhol was a genius.
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Old 23-01-2004, 05:48 PM   #26   [permalink]
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Well, Akiahara's point was that it's all a matter of opinion anyway. I have mixed feelings about Warhol, and pop art in general, but I see her point.
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Old 23-01-2004, 06:31 PM   #27   [permalink]
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Dunno about High School art classes, but college ones at serious art schools seem pretty good. Lotta teachers who used to work in the industry, good place to make connections and set up a network and get that job ya want. Even if you're not the best artist, as long as you show creativity and drive and some talent it's definitely worth it. Gotta take advantage of everything you can, though.

In terms of ability to draw it is mostly refinement tho it seems. And learning the ins and outs of new computer art tools.
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Old 25-01-2004, 05:01 AM   #28   [permalink]
Akiahara
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Originally Posted by Yui_Reborn
Well, Akiahara's point was that it's all a matter of opinion anyway. I have mixed feelings about Warhol, and pop art in general, but I see her point.

Yes, I do see it as a matter of opinion.

I don't enjoy art in school (yes, I mean college) because there's an intolerance for art types like manga and pretty much any animation. At least, in my experience, the professors much preferred either traditional art, or pop art. Those are things that yes, I'm educated on, but I do not like, nor do I want to PAY to take classes about them.

It's all a matter of opinion.
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Old 26-01-2004, 09:04 PM   #29   [permalink]
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Opinions, opinions...

My High School art teacher was a twit. She was new and treated us like we didn't know didly-squat about art. Half the time it didn't seem like she knew how to teach either. She would always be starting us on something new before we could finish our current project and they were simple at best.

My college teachers were a bit different. They tought us to be appreciative of art no matter whether others criticized our work. I remember my neighbor's dad was in a figure drawing class with me. All he could really do is make stick figures, but the teacher payed attention to him and gave him support and did her best to help him be more creative.

On the other hand, most of my teachers just gave us a project and didn't pay us much mind (other than a few critiques that seemed aimed more towards their own style sense) to what we were doing unless we asked for help.

For my Photoshop/Illustrator class, it was rediculous. We barely did much work and we were simply quized on our familiarity with the programs. Other than that, the teacher just spent time talking about color theory, typography, and eye appeal.

My take is that while the classes can be great for learning and getting experience, they don't really teach you how to be an artist. That is up to you.
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Old 26-01-2004, 11:45 PM   #30   [permalink]
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Originally Posted by Nokari
My take is that while the classes can be great for learning and getting experience, they don't really teach you how to be an artist. That is up to you.
Soooooo right *nods*.

Actually the reason why I gave up doing either traditional art, or graphic design in college, is because those classes were teaching craft and not art. Ironically, it's only when I decided to go back and major in liberal arts that I think I really started to develop as an artist at all. When you read a lot, write a lot, and get to know more about yourself AND the world, you actually have something to create art about. And then, when you have the drive to create, the craft aspect will come of it's own accord.

In all seriousness, I think it's a huge mistake to isolate artistically-inclined people in an "art-school", where they primarily learn craft; They miss out on a lot of the benefits of a well-rounded education. I think this is the reason why a lot of modern art seems so quasi-intellectual to me, because many of the artists don't actually have any real intellectual background.
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