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Old 08-12-2001, 04:20 PM   #1   [permalink]
Maguamaru
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Question Tattoo of the number '1'... **BIG FF7 SPOILERS**

Ok, as you should have seen by the title, there are **MAJOR** FF7 spoilers in here. You have been warned.

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Ok... several times in Disc 1, when you're pursuing Sephiroth, NPCs in towns mention that a man in a black cape with the number '1' tattooed on his arm passed through there, and the party says something along the lines of "That's gotta be Sephy!"
Now, later on in the game, you find out that the dudes with various numbners tattoeed on them are semi-clones of Sephiroth that Hojo manufactured after Sephy was 'killed' in the Nibelheim incident... and that Cloud, who is a failed Sephiroth clone, was never given a number by Hojo.
Now, what about the time that Cloud and Zack were trapped in the mako-tube-things in the Shin-Ra mansion basement? It's made clear that while the mako bombardment royally screwed Cloud up, Zack was able to withstand it... could this be a hint that Zack became a SUCCESSFUL Sephiroth clone, complete with a number?
Now, if the mako-tubes are the only ones capable of producing Sephy-clones, and Cloud and Zack were used to pioneer them, then that may make Zack the FIRST successful clone.. earning him the number '1' tattooed on his arm.
Where am I going with this? Well, we saw that in Nibelheim, Cloud threw Sephiroth into the base of the mako reactor... DESPITE the fact that he'd been stabbed. Remember this. After Sephiroth fell, both Cloud and Zack had been stabbed by Sephy.... indicating that even after someone is mortally wounded, they can be rejuvinated in the mako tanks and screwed up with Jenova cells - IE, becoming a Sephiroth clone.
Now, when Cloud fell in the lifestream, he was transported from the Northern Crater to the Mideel area via the lifestream... which is basically mako energy. If mako reactors are keyed into the lifestream, then this means that Sephiroth could have made his way, in the lifestream, from the Nibelheim reactor all the way to the North Crater, where we see him frozen in materia. This means that the 'Sephiroth' that we see on Disc 1 wasn't the real thing... now, in Disc 2, at the Crater, we see 'Sephiroth' say "I'm done with this body" or something like that... could it be that Sephiroth is capable of possessing the clones? Maybe, under those cloaks, they all look like him, providing him with a seemingly endless supply of makeshift bodies... it's a longshot, but I think it's possible.
Now, here comes the crunch. I've put forward my theory as to why Zack may have been a successful clone with a '1' tattoo... and that people who have been mortally wounded can still become clones... and the Sephy that we see on Disc 1 has a tattoo of the number '1'... what's to say that the body that Sephiroth possessed on the first disc wasn't Zack's, after he was taken back and the cloning process was completed?

I know it's an EXTREMELY long shot, and it's probably total theoretical bollocks... but what's your two cents on the matter?
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Old 08-12-2001, 05:31 PM   #2   [permalink]
vlakorados
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More spoilers... but if you're still reading you deserve it!

Hmmmmm.... That's a very interesting theory Mags. It could even be plausible..... but I don't think it's very likely.

I'll have to go back and play the whole damn thing over again so I can see what everyone says... (hee hee! This is great! Now I have an excuse to play it AGAIN!)

But if you remember the rest of the story, Zack's body was filled with enough lead to make a pencil before he and Cloud could make it to Midgar. I know that the Mako tubes could revive someone, but where is Sephy gonna get ahold of a working tube? Yeah, he might have broken into the Shinra building and stolen JENOVA, but I don't think he had time to revive Zack's body and escape with his 'mother.' It seems like a long shot.... and if the real Sephy was in the Northern area the whole time, how is he going to revive a body from there?

I think it's more likely that Zack's corpse was eaten by some random monster.
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Old 08-12-2001, 06:24 PM   #3   [permalink]
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Re: More spoilers... but if you're still reading you deserve it!

Quote:
Originally posted by vlakorados
Hmmmmm.... That's a very interesting theory Mags. It could even be plausible..... but I don't think it's very likely.

I'll have to go back and play the whole damn thing over again so I can see what everyone says... (hee hee! This is great! Now I have an excuse to play it AGAIN!)

But if you remember the rest of the story, Zack's body was filled with enough lead to make a pencil before he and Cloud could make it to Midgar. I know that the Mako tubes could revive someone, but where is Sephy gonna get ahold of a working tube? Yeah, he might have broken into the Shinra building and stolen JENOVA, but I don't think he had time to revive Zack's body and escape with his 'mother.' It seems like a long shot.... and if the real Sephy was in the Northern area the whole time, how is he going to revive a body from there?

I think it's more likely that Zack's corpse was eaten by some random monster.
Hmm, but what if Sephiroth had nothing to do with Zack's 'revival'? I mean, Hojo was still around - it's evident that he continued making Sephy clones for some time afterwards... maybe he was a little bitter about his prized specimens getting away? If he had revived Zack into the first working Sephy clone, then Zack could, or should have had the tattoo, right?
As for Sephy controlling people from his materia prison.. it's a tough one, but the lifestream seems to enable him to do some very weird things... it seems that he's capable of possession/communication too, judging by how he was 'summoning' Cloud to the crater, and how he seemed to be able to possess cloud sometimes. Maybe people who have Jenova cells in their bodies have certain 'links', and Sephiroth's affiliation with the lifestream allows him to exploit these?
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Old 08-12-2001, 06:51 PM   #4   [permalink]
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Hmmm... could be.... we still don't really know how Cloud actually made it into Midgar, do we? I assume he was on a train, since Tifa found him at the sector station..... It could be any number of things.

But wait, if Zack was a Sephiroth clone, and you think they all looked just like the original Sephy, how come we don't see Zack when Seph does all that bad stuff like taking the Black materia and killing Aeris? Aww crap, now I'm all confused... and my head hurts....
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Old 08-12-2001, 09:01 PM   #5   [permalink]
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Quote:
Originally posted by vlakorados
Hmmm... could be.... we still don't really know how Cloud actually made it into Midgar, do we? I assume he was on a train, since Tifa found him at the sector station..... It could be any number of things.

But wait, if Zack was a Sephiroth clone, and you think they all looked just like the original Sephy, how come we don't see Zack when Seph does all that bad stuff like taking the Black materia and killing Aeris? Aww crap, now I'm all confused... and my head hurts....
Well, remember, it's just a theory.. ^_^
But Zack broke out of the mako-tube before the bombardment process was complete, right? Inspecting the tubes in Disc 2 or 3 reveales secret messages scratched in the side of the tubes by Cloud and Zack, plotting their escape... so presumably if the process wasn't complete, then Zack's appearance had not yet been altered. If he was put back in the tube at a later date, then the process could have been completed, making him a 'total' sephiroth clone.
Unless the clones all look different, and Sephiroth is using his powers of control to decieve everyone as to the No. 1 clone's appearance... but then, any theories about him communicating with only Cloud through Jenova cells wouldn't be applicable...
Damn. x.x
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Old 10-12-2001, 08:00 AM   #6   [permalink]
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now let me clear some things up for some of you....

sephiroth was the first and only person to receive the number 1 tattoo, yes, he was thrown off the nibelheim reactor by cloud and landed in mako, and yes, he did use lifestream to get all the way to the northern crater, where he laid dorment for 5 years, recooperating, half his body destroyed, being the lower half, but here is the main thing you people have forgotten, jenova cells are able to self-replicate human cells AND form, meaning using jenova, sephiroth could make more copies of himself, which he did all the way through disc 1 and some of disc 2, so in a way, sephiroth didn't actually kill aeris either, though he had mind control over the fake sephiroth to do it....

zack officially died after being shot by the shinra soldiers....

if anyone needs any more clearing up, just ask
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Old 10-12-2001, 09:19 AM   #7   [permalink]
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very interesting stuff here guys
i've really got to play this game again its been a while

damn these new excellent rpgs like valkyrie profile and tales of destiny 2

i better not buy dragon warrior 7 or i'll never play ff7 again
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Old 10-12-2001, 09:29 AM   #8   [permalink]
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well Sephiroth was born under Ghast's eye, i dont think he was ever given a tattoo.

Hojo was the one making clones (Sephiroth is NOT a clone) so Hoko would be the one putting numbers on his creations.

(also ties in with both Sephiroth and Cloud being un-numbered)

Cloud isnt exaclty a clone either, more of a hybrid.

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Old 10-12-2001, 10:15 AM   #9   [permalink]
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Quote:
Originally posted by ATh

Hojo was the one making clones (Sephiroth is NOT a clone) so Hoko would be the one putting numbers on his creations.

sephiroth was not a clone, this is true, but the sephiroth running around on disc1 and 2 however, was more of a fake sephiroth, controlled by the real one, the fake sephiroth was created using jenova cells, which have the ability to self-replicate human form....
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Old 10-12-2001, 10:23 AM   #10   [permalink]
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Quote:
Originally posted by Safer-Sephiroth


sephiroth was not a clone, this is true, but the sephiroth running around on disc1 and 2 however, was more of a fake sephiroth, controlled by the real one, the fake sephiroth was created using jenova cells, which have the ability to self-replicate human form....
i dotn dispute that, but i do dispute that Sephiorth had a tattoo

"sephiroth was the first and only person to receive the number 1 tattoo, yes, he was thrown off the nibelheim reactor by cloud and landed in mako"

is what you said.. i think this is wrong

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Old 10-12-2001, 10:27 AM   #11   [permalink]
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I may be wrong in my tattoo theory, but nobody really knows, square did not say much about that aspect of the game unfortunately, too bad, lets hope that they do in the remake of it on the ps2....

and has anyone ever wondered why tifa never said anything about cloud's past whenever he spoke of it and remained quiet? I have my theory on this, but I want to hear other's....

edit: wait a sec, sephiroth indeed did NOT have a tattoo! when you face him in the end in his normal human(ish) form, he has NO tattoo on his body, I can't believe I forgot that
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Old 10-12-2001, 01:14 PM   #12   [permalink]
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Hmm.. it's true that there's pleanty of evidence for Jenova cells being able to repair or alter human form.. but do we have any proof that they can create ones from scratch? If they can't, then I don't see how Sephiroth would have been able to create the clones himself...
Since Hojo was basically hell-bent on the idea of making another Sephy, I think it's safe to assume that he made the clones... however, another issue to address is what source he used to make the clones from. I mean, think about it... the Sephiroth cloning project didn't start until after the ORIGINAL Sephiroth fell into the Nibelheim reactor, did it? And since Sephiroth was at the Northern Crater after that incident, it makes me wonder WHERE Hojo got samples of Sephiroth's DNA to use as the basis for the clones...

As for Tifa remaining silent about Cloud's past.. as far as I was aware, it was just because she didn't want to break the truth to him... if I remember rightly, she said something along those lines when they were both in the lifestream in Disc 2.
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Old 10-12-2001, 04:59 PM   #13   [permalink]
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Nibelhiem seems to be the hub of a lot of this activity ...

After Cloud stabs Sephy at the reactor he and Zack were taken into custody and were brought to the lab underneath the Shinra mansion. I'm trying to remember if Cloud still had the Masamune with him after he stabbed Sephiroth... but if he did isn't it possible that Hojo could remove little bits of Sephy from the sword? And Jenova was being kept in the reactor along with a couple dozen failed experiments (those poor saps being infused with Mako), so Hojo could have taken Jenova with him to Midgar after Nibelhiem was burned to the ground by.... Sephiroth, right? Wait, how could Sephy burn the town if he was dead? ><; d'oh... now I'm confused again.... someone please clarify....
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Old 10-12-2001, 05:11 PM   #14   [permalink]
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Cloud stabbing Sephiroth happened after the town was burned to the ground.
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Old 10-12-2001, 05:16 PM   #15   [permalink]
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Quote:
Originally posted by rascal45
Cloud stabbing Sephiroth happened after the town was burned to the ground.
That's right... Sephy burned Nibelheim down then ran off to the reactor... didn't he?
Crap, all this theroizing and I can't even remember what order that Kalm flashback happened in. o.o If anyone can remember and would kindly replace Could/Zack/Miscellaneous Shinra Soldier(tm) so that the REAL events are transcribed, it'd be a good reference point for those of us who are rusty on Nibelheim's events. ^^;;
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